Posts by Joey Jo-Jo

131

Let's Discuss Ray Franz's Books

by Recovery in

i have been repeatedly pleaded with to read the books of ray franz in my short stay on this board.

apparently these are all the all-powerful, wt crushing arguments, that lead so many to leave jw's and become ruthless opposers of god's people.

we can discuss any claims/statements/scriptural arguments presented in either of his books, as long as it somehow proves jehovah's witnesses are not god's people.

RIP Rev. Moon

by slimboyfat in

another one bites the dust.. .

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19459604.

Joey Jo-Jo

http://www.smh.com.au/world/leader-of-the-moonies-dies-aged-92-20120903-258z4.html

RIP? He should had died a long time ago, I hope his coffin blows up.

21

Hassan's New Book " Freedom of Mind " Chapter 1 Tidbits & Points

by flipper in

jw
friends

the title of the new steve hassan book is " freedom of mind - helping loved ones leave controlling people, cults and beliefs " .

very good information even in the 1st chapter called " cult common denominators " .

just wanted to share some high points my wife and i gleaned from it !.

thanks flipper, I have not read this book, I was bit disapointed that his last two books were similar, what I read from your first post sounds all too familiar, does Hassan's book had anything new? Does he say anything more about his personal beliefs with Judaism?

33

Are we Ex JW's just as cognitively dissonant as we were before?

by chapstick in

jw
friends

challenge me on this.

challenge yourself on this.

can you, personally, handle the truth?.

Joey Jo-Jo

Joey Jo-Jo: Sulla I am having a hard time understanding the points you are making, for me to understand you a bit better how would you describe cognitive dissonance in your own words?

I am currently studying psychology and am heavily involved in studies regarding social psychology. Could you please show we how you came to the conclusion that dissonance is not a cognitive construct?

Sulla wrote - Don't know that I've come to that conclusion. The first thing I asked on this thread was for a definition of cognitive dissonance beyond the popular one of holding two conflicting beliefs at once. I've asked lots of question in my posts on this subject; if you have some academic insight into this matter, it would be helpful if you'd share it.

Sorry, I did not read everything on this thread but I did read your last post. In psy101 we are taught that two or more cognitive conflicting cognitive elements that consists of beliefs or behaviors, the examples used are smoking and Festinger’s experiment that involves money, the two videos I made on page 1 go into detail of ways to combating cognitive dissonance.

But let me explain it from scratch, dissonance is a mental state similar to anxiety, reducing dissonance can involve lying to yourself or makes excuses of little merit, consonance is admitting the contradiction and adjusting your beliefs/behaviors so they are non-conflicting.

Well known cases that you might understand is the concept of a guilty conscience, the reason why people suffer from stress and nightmares is because these people have done things that do not correlate with their "self concept" or their identity - who they are by the way they were brought up and taught, again beliefs and behaviors, to resolve this they make up irrational responses in their brain, lets say we are talking about a person involved in a gang who just killed a member from another gang, this person could say that -he had it coming- -he deserved it because of blabla- -if I did not pop him he would had popd me-, you get the idea, this will create a state of less tension, when someone from their crew is murdered again this person might fell justified for illegal retribution.

So the brain does these little tricks to adapt by seeking consistencies (the ones I just mentioned -he had it coming- etc), and avoid inconsistencies like - I should turn myself in. You can almost see the criminals symmetry and it's cognitive patterns.

Another well known example is smoking, I suggest you Google it.

Now on to ex-jw's, some became agnostics (i don’t know if god goes or does not exist) atheist (lack of evidence therefore don’t believe) and theists (belief based on faith).

Now we can't be all right and we can't be all wrong, the problem is not being in a state of cognitive dissonance, the problem is what cognitive tools we use to reason during a state of cognitive dissonance, lets say I told an ex-jw theist that Noah could not fit all those species according to the measurements set in the book of genesis, first thing he would feel is threatened because I have just attacked this ex-jw's self concept, now in a state of cognitive dissonance the ex-jw will look cognitively what he considered consistent with his self concept, so he fixes is dissonance by his new belief in micro evolution only, a form of evolution that only creationists (people with poor qualifications that believe in the genesis account), now I confront him again by telling him that micro came from macro evolution, you think it ends there? no, what I understand that he doesn't is all the logical fallacies he uses to maintain his beliefs. Confirmation bias and other cognitive bias are apparent, all the reasoning used in this person's time as a jw as morphed itself into another belief.

I see this all the time with Christian ex-jw's, one in his youtube video said to question everything which I replied - question everything except the bible.

33

Are we Ex JW's just as cognitively dissonant as we were before?

by chapstick in

jw
friends

challenge me on this.

challenge yourself on this.

can you, personally, handle the truth?.

Joey Jo-Jo

Sulla I am having a hard time understanding the points you are making, for me to understand you a bit better how would you describe cognitive dissonance in your own words?

I am currently studying psychology and am heavily involved in studies regarding social psychology. Could you please show we how you came to the conclusion that dissonance is not a cognitive construct?

33

Are we Ex JW's just as cognitively dissonant as we were before?

by chapstick in

jw
friends

challenge me on this.

challenge yourself on this.

can you, personally, handle the truth?.

Joey Jo-Jo

I made two videos about this very issue, the videos are short but concise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX1ivUTWSRY&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqS3kemh5_c&feature=plcp

21

Shunned by an ex-jw

by Joey Jo-Jo in

jw
friends

i was watching one of alun williams videos on youtube.

i was a subscriber to his channel, that is until he blocked me completely due to one comment i made on his video watchtoweralert1---homosexuality.

mind you this was the only comment i have ever made to any of his videos, most vids are your typical ex-jw info but he is now making videos specifically about the bible, one being about homosexuality, although still an ex-jw he appears to be still carrying a lot of jw luggage, for one he has just false propheticed the end, and he spoke against same sex intercourse.. being youtube he is entitled to do what ever he wants on is channel, however youtube is also place for discussion and debates and in no way was my post worth blocking, and being an ex-jw i expected him to know better.. what i posted was - i much rather see those outside the org, but really if you want to play that card you have a lot to answer for, for one circular reasoning.

Joey Jo-Jo

GromitSK wrote I don't understand why you'd waste your time on this guy, he sounds bonkers to me.

I know, its a first that I post my very first message to this youtuber only to be blocked by him, a bible nazi indeed.

21

Shunned by an ex-jw

by Joey Jo-Jo in

jw
friends

i was watching one of alun williams videos on youtube.

i was a subscriber to his channel, that is until he blocked me completely due to one comment i made on his video watchtoweralert1---homosexuality.

mind you this was the only comment i have ever made to any of his videos, most vids are your typical ex-jw info but he is now making videos specifically about the bible, one being about homosexuality, although still an ex-jw he appears to be still carrying a lot of jw luggage, for one he has just false propheticed the end, and he spoke against same sex intercourse.. being youtube he is entitled to do what ever he wants on is channel, however youtube is also place for discussion and debates and in no way was my post worth blocking, and being an ex-jw i expected him to know better.. what i posted was - i much rather see those outside the org, but really if you want to play that card you have a lot to answer for, for one circular reasoning.

Joey Jo-Jo

cedars wrote If this IS shunning, and not merely a difference of opinion, then it wouldn't be the first time I've witnessed it. When I first "awakened" I became aware of a friend who is also effectively an apostate as regards the organization, but he chooses to remain a JW nonetheless (despite not having much by way of family ties). However, he is one of those reformists who believes that the Watchtower once held a special relationship with God but has forsaken it. He therefore apparently believes the organization is due to be divinely disciplined, whereupon it will return to God's favor, and therefore it shouldn't be left entirely. I understand there are many who feel similarly, and therefore continue to call themselves JWs despite disagreeing with much of the doctrine.

Anyway, after we "compared notes" I slowly heard less and less from him, and now I hear virtually nothing at all. Last time I went to visit him, he made it clear that he would need to shun me if I were ever disfellowshipped. It's quite sad really because he's a genuinely nice bloke, and we get on well. However, there are certain elements of JW belief that he refuses to let go of, and he seems to view me as a heretic for daring to turn my back on things entirely.

It's worth remembering that there are lots of different "shades" to JW apostasy, from chaps such as my friend mentioned above right through to atheist ex-JWs. The different groups don't always see eye to eye (as we've witnessed on this forum) and shunning (or rejecting "bad association") is obviously part of the JW DNA.

I refer to it as E-shunning lol, but I agree that we are not all the same, a friend who is sitting on the fence when spoken about apostates he gets unconfortable and avoids such topics, some even started their own cults. I had a phase after reading CoC and ISOCF that I believed to be free thanks to holy spirit, and during that time I did suffer from confirmation bias, but never did I shun others, and after leaving the borg my motto was and still is truth should stand up to scrutiny what ever it may be. I mean how dumb do you have to be not to see the double standard and the hypocrisy, ex-jw seen as wolf in sheeps clothing and ex-jw's judging atheists as a wolf in sheeps clothing, the irony.

21

Shunned by an ex-jw

by Joey Jo-Jo in

jw
friends

i was watching one of alun williams videos on youtube.

i was a subscriber to his channel, that is until he blocked me completely due to one comment i made on his video watchtoweralert1---homosexuality.

mind you this was the only comment i have ever made to any of his videos, most vids are your typical ex-jw info but he is now making videos specifically about the bible, one being about homosexuality, although still an ex-jw he appears to be still carrying a lot of jw luggage, for one he has just false propheticed the end, and he spoke against same sex intercourse.. being youtube he is entitled to do what ever he wants on is channel, however youtube is also place for discussion and debates and in no way was my post worth blocking, and being an ex-jw i expected him to know better.. what i posted was - i much rather see those outside the org, but really if you want to play that card you have a lot to answer for, for one circular reasoning.

Joey Jo-Jo

GromitSK wrote @joey I read your comment as supporting his view on homosexuals. Was I wrong?

Could you elaborate, I dont see how on earth I was being homophobic, I first wrote " I much rather see those outside the org " meant that I prefer those outside the destructive cult than those in a destructive cult meaning in this case I value more someone who may believe in a deity yet left the borg, " but really if you want to play that card you have a lot to answer for " meaning that he has to back up his claims and thats something christians aren't very good at, so if he his going to claim that homosexuality is wrong he has to back up that claim, being anti-gay simply because the bible says so does not count, I then gave him a hint " for one circular reasoning "

And the only reason why I posted this was because there is nothing unatural about same sex, he blowns the whole gay topic out of purpotion and said that the end was near.

45

What leads a person to think they are inspired by God?

by jwfacts in

there seems no end of people claiming to be inspired.

there are numerous holy books claiming to have been handed to their writers by god.

these days a person writing their own holy book is likely to be met with scepticism (unless you are a scientologist), so people tend to claim to be inspired to interpret older holy books.

Joey Jo-Jo

One thing I learned in psychology is that we humans like to fool ourselves, the same goes with conspiracy theorists they look for patterns to suit their understandings.